The Cheshire Cat - a villian?

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The Cheshire Cat - a villian?

I saw a Disney Villains product that had the Cheshire Cat from Alice In Wonderland pictured with other Disney villians. Am I missing something? I never though of him as a villian. He is mischievous and sometimes not very helpful to Alice, but a villian? Anyone else puzzled by this too? Would you consider him a villian? Si and Am from Lady and the Tramp and Lucifer from Cinderella definately yes. Now he's not as squeeky clean as say The Aristocats but I would never consider him a villian, he's just insane..

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This is a bit of an age old debate among animation fans, I sit in the camp that says yes, he is a villain. A lot of people think the queen of hearts is the villain in the film and although she is going to behead young Alice the only reason behind it is that the Cheshire Cat tricks Alice in to hitting the queen, and again tricks her in the court, he also causes Alice to become more lost than she already is, I see him as a bad guy, but then so is the walrus and the tweedles.

Also if disney recognise the Cheshire Cat as a villain for his trickery, why is tinkerbell not a villain, she tries to kill Wendy on a number of occasions?

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You mean to say Tink isn't a Villain confused

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I consider Cheshire Cat to be a villain. He ranks pretty low on the list of bad guys, but he's deceptive and tries to harm the main character nonetheless. That's actually the costume I'm using for ToT 10 miler and subsequent villains bash.

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Mrferret wrote:
You mean to say Tink isn't a Villain confused

BITE YOUR TONGUE!!!!! LOL She is childlike just like Peter Pan himself. (besies if my DH thought Tink was a villian, it would give him waaaaay to much fodder for much of my jewelry!)

The Cheshire cat's "perceived" role is not just because of his role in the book but what the saying, "Smiling like a Cheshire cat" has come to mean in American vernacular (sorry, remember i taught English). It usually refers to someone who is up to something that might night be good.

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The term Villian is a strong one. For a "person" who is evil.
I wouldn't class The Cheshire Cat as evil - Despite the arguments to the contrary.

But hey - Everyone loves a "good" villian - And everyone loves that cat!

I wanted to type more but my lunch break is over and I really should be back at work!!!

awesome

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oldtink wrote:
Mrferret wrote:
You mean to say Tink isn't a Villain confused

BITE YOUR TONGUE!!!!! LOL She is childlike just like Peter Pan himself. (besies if my DH thought Tink was a villian, it would give him waaaaay to much fodder for much of my jewelry!)

The Cheshire cat's "perceived" role is not just because of his role in the book but what the saying, "Smiling like a Cheshire cat" has come to mean in American vernacular (sorry, remember i taught English). It usually refers to someone who is up to something that might night be good.

Nope ... Definately a villain ... Getting poor Wendy shot like that then laughiing about it eek

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I'm on Team Yes on the Cheshire Cat as a villain debate. He's the one that gets Alice into all the mess with the Queen!

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Mrferret wrote:
oldtink wrote:
Mrferret wrote:
You mean to say Tink isn't a Villain confused

BITE YOUR TONGUE!!!!! LOL She is childlike just like Peter Pan himself. (besies if my DH thought Tink was a villian, it would give him waaaaay to much fodder for much of my jewelry!)

The Cheshire cat's "perceived" role is not just because of his role in the book but what the saying, "Smiling like a Cheshire cat" has come to mean in American vernacular (sorry, remember i taught English). It usually refers to someone who is up to something that might night be good.

Nope ... Definately a villain ... Getting poor Wendy shot like that then laughiing about it eek

Tink's not so much a villain, but an anti-hero.

Cheshire Cat - he's a villain...

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I don't know. He's not really in the film long enough to be considered a villain in my view. A villain is often one of the leading characters that has a large presence in the film constantly trying to derail the opposition any way they can. What's tricky is that I don't know if the film really does have a single villain. Disney does list the Queen of Hearts as a villain since I guess she's the only one who actually does want to harm Alice though there are arguments as stated before how the Cheshire Cat got Alice into the giant mess at the end. I guess all I can really say, "Your guess is as good as mine".

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jw24 wrote:
I don't know. He's not really in the film long enough to be considered a villain in my view. A villain is often one of the leading characters that has a large presence in the film constantly trying to derail the opposition any way they can. What's tricky is that I don't know if the film really does have a single villain. Disney does list the Queen of Hearts as a villain since I guess she's the only one who actually does want to harm Alice though there are arguments as stated before how the Cheshire Cat got Alice into the giant mess at the end. I guess all I can really say, "Your guess is as good as mine".

But many of the "starring villains" have sidekicks that help. I would consider the Cheshire Cat as one of those along side say Lucifer in Cinderella, Pain & Panic in Hercules, Iago in Aladdin, etc.

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Allie wrote:

But many of the "starring villains" have sidekicks that help. I would consider the Cheshire Cat as one of those along side say Lucifer in Cinderella, Pain & Panic in Hercules, Iago in Aladdin, etc.

I agree with that. They are all 'sidekick villains' that add some humor to the dark side. I wouldn't call Tinkerbell a villain necessarily but I definitely think she is a jealous, conniving little brat... but that's just my opinion as I know she's much nicer in the fairy shows/movies mickey

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Allie wrote:

But many of the "starring villains" have sidekicks that help. I would consider the Cheshire Cat as one of those along side say Lucifer in Cinderella, Pain & Panic in Hercules, Iago in Aladdin, etc.

Good points. Though for me, I put the villains and villain sidekicks into two different categories. I don't exactly label villain sidekicks as actual villains. A villain sidekick/sidekicks as a supporting character/characters? Yes. An actual villain that is a leading character? Probably not. That's just me though.

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I would go with the "sidekick villain" as well. But if we had to pick either villain or hero, I would have to say he's a villain.

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He is definitely a villain. With that smile you are always wondering what is he up to and thinking. And Tink is jealous of Wendy due to all the attention that Peter pays to her.

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No, no, no. Cats are NEVER villains. There are no bad cats, just bad people wielding an improper influence over those poor misguided kitty cats, who would be lovely and sweet in the right circumstances - say, if they were my kitties.

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Mrferret wrote:
You mean to say Tink isn't a Villain confused

I really have to apologise for my husbands silliness sad
Tut Tut Mr Ferret

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crazycatperson wrote:
No, no, no. Cats are NEVER villains. There are no bad cats, just bad people wielding an improper influence over those poor misguided kitty cats, who would be lovely and sweet in the right circumstances - say, if they were my kitties.

Ditto!

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crazycatperson wrote:
No, no, no. Cats are NEVER villains. There are no bad cats, just bad people wielding an improper influence over those poor misguided kitty cats, who would be lovely and sweet in the right circumstances - say, if they were my kitties.

My 3 kitties completely agree with you! Especially my Fiona who tends to grin just like the Cheshire cat biggrin

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OMG what a gorgeous kitty cat! And she really does have a Cheshire cat smile.

We used to have a fluffy longhaired gray cat named Fiona - a darker gray, but otherwise similar. This was ages ago; we lost her in the summer of 2000. She was such a little flirt. Your little sweetie makes me smile thinking of our Fiona.

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Fiona, what a precious princess! She is adorable!

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[i]"Tinker Bell is both sweet and sassy. She is loyal to her friends and will help fix their problems like a true Tinker Fairy. She loves adding lost things to her collection and going on adventures." from the Disney site.

There used to be a link on Disney where you could read the bios of all the major characters. When I researched the reason, I found it went back to Walt himself who insisted that even the villains became that way for a reason. I used it in a project connected with Randy Pausch's book and the kids identified with Disney characters and why. (Pausch claimed he was a Tigger).

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crazycatperson wrote:
OMG what a gorgeous kitty cat! And she really does have a Cheshire cat smile.

We used to have a fluffy longhaired gray cat named Fiona - a darker gray, but otherwise similar. This was ages ago; we lost her in the summer of 2000. She was such a little flirt. Your little sweetie makes me smile thinking of our Fiona.

Thank you! I'm glad our Fiona brings back fond memories of your Fiona muchlove

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Fiona, what a precious princess! She is adorable!

Thank you~ Our cats are on the VERY short list of what I love more than Disney laugh

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crazycatperson wrote:
No, no, no. Cats are NEVER villains. There are no bad cats, just bad people wielding an improper influence over those poor misguided kitty cats, who would be lovely and sweet in the right circumstances - say, if they were my kitties.

I think there are many villains that you could make that argument for: that they are merely misunderstood or a victim of circumstance or what have you. Yet they are villains none the less wink

VelcroPooh

Case in point. Look at Si and Am from Lady and the Tramp. Although they were cute and could sing.....villains none the less. Smile

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I don't think the Cheshire Cat is bad just mischievous. He likes to be a trickster. Lucifer from Cinderella, bad. He tries to eat Jacque and Gus Gus and won't help Cinderella when she is locked in her room. Thank goodness for Bruno!

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I refuse to believe that there are any bad cats. What you've been seeing is just anti-cat propaganda spread by dogs and mice.

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crazycatperson wrote:
I refuse to believe that there are any bad cats. What you've been seeing is just anti-cat propaganda spread by dogs and mice.

awesome laugh muchlove

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crazycatperson wrote:
I refuse to believe that there are any bad cats. What you've been seeing is just anti-cat propaganda spread by dogs and mice.

rolling

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crazycatperson wrote:
I refuse to believe that there are any bad cats. What you've been seeing is just anti-cat propaganda spread by dogs and mice.

Ha ha!

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Oh No! Am I going to have to change my picture?? LOL I am definitely not a villain. I think the Cheshire cat is sneaky, but not bad. Besides, I am a cat person too. My kitty is sweet! I agree with the idea that this started my dog people! wink