Girl molestered on Disney dream

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RobynPrincess's picture
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Girl molestered on Disney dream

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/disney-cruise-line-fails-to-promptly-report-molestation-of-11yearold-girl-in-port/-/1637132/20227248/-/1hsdp6z/-/index.html

This is so shocking to watch Sad

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Wow. That's just nuts, and it's very interesting how the different laws apply to the ship.

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It's because unfortunately the ship is in international waters. Different laws entirely. Shame on Disney - I am so disappointed that they allowed this monster escape prosecution.

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The Bahamian Authorities speak up on the matter...
http://www.tribune242.com/news/2013/may/27/we-did-all-we-were-required-do-disney-cruise-case/

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They may have done everything they were legally "required" to do, but they didn't do what they should have done. Plus, did you notice this paragraph?

"The incident, which occurred on August 6, 2012, was turned over to local authorities on August 7 because Carnival did no make an immediate report to Florida officials."

Say what? Carnival? And "did no make"? I guess even journalists don't proof read anymore, or the Bahamian officials didn't even know what company they were dealing with!

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i had read somewhere else about this, that there is missing info, like the family didn't want to press charges and such

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That is my understanding. That when the Bahamian Police got there the Grandmother wouldn't allow them to talk to the girl and refused to press charges. After that, under Bahamian law, there was no more "case." The authorities in Florida (and many Americans) are furious because in Florida it doesn't matter if the Grandmother wanted to press charges or not, the District Attorney could have brought the charges. He would have likely been convicted and done jail time before then being deported. Instead, his employment contract with Disney was terminated and he was sent home.

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I agree Kristen. Since this was a crime against a minor the guardian does not have any say. The DA has the final word but since Disney terminated his employment and sent him home it is a moot point. They just released him to do this to another unsuspecting female. Yuck!

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What a sick sick man! This is disgusting! Well done to the girl for bringing it up though.. Smile I hope her and her family are doing ok after this horrible event!

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PirateGirl wrote:
I agree Kristen. Since this was a crime against a minor the guardian does not have any say. The DA has the final word but since Disney terminated his employment and sent him home it is a moot point. They just released him to do this to another unsuspecting female. Yuck!

excuse my ignorance of FL law but in OH the guardian is the only one who can go forward with charges in a juvenile case (unless they are the subject of the investigation then CFS would step in) if we have a case and the parent or guardian says never mind then we have to never mind. If the victim is unwilling then there's no case in an instance like this...i'm certainly not standing up for the guy,he should be under a jail without a doubt.

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DisneyDee27 wrote:
PirateGirl wrote:
I agree Kristen. Since this was a crime against a minor the guardian does not have any say. The DA has the final word but since Disney terminated his employment and sent him home it is a moot point. They just released him to do this to another unsuspecting female. Yuck!

excuse my ignorance of FL law but in OH the guardian is the only one who can go forward with charges in a juvenile case (unless they are the subject of the investigation then CFS would step in) if we have a case and the parent or guardian says never mind then we have to never mind. If the victim is unwilling then there's no case in an instance like this...i'm certainly not standing up for the guy,he should be under a jail without a doubt.

I can't believe that this is entirely true. Who would advocate for a juvenile if they were being victimized by the Guardian? And who would advocate for a Juvenile who's guardian('s) preferred to avoid legal attention rather than seek justice for those in their custody.

It's a sick world out there sometimes.. It's hard for me to believe that OH would protect the rights of adults before it's children.

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carlsbaddrew wrote:
DisneyDee27 wrote:
PirateGirl wrote:
I agree Kristen. Since this was a crime against a minor the guardian does not have any say. The DA has the final word but since Disney terminated his employment and sent him home it is a moot point. They just released him to do this to another unsuspecting female. Yuck!

excuse my ignorance of FL law but in OH the guardian is the only one who can go forward with charges in a juvenile case (unless they are the subject of the investigation then CFS would step in) if we have a case and the parent or guardian says never mind then we have to never mind. If the victim is unwilling then there's no case in an instance like this...i'm certainly not standing up for the guy,he should be under a jail without a doubt.

I can't believe that this is entirely true. Who would advocate for a juvenile if they were being victimized by the Guardian? And who would advocate for a Juvenile who's guardian('s) preferred to avoid legal attention rather than seek justice for those in their custody.

It's a sick world out there sometimes.. It's hard for me to believe that OH would protect the rights of adults before it's children.

Drew, Children and Family Services gets involved in case of parental/guardian neglect/abuse allegations. Juveniles can't put a statement on file without their parent/guardians permission because they are juveniles. I don't know where you live but that's how it works here. I've been a police officer for 12 years. There are numerous cases that I have worked where a parent didn't believe a child or didn't want to believe a child and as long as they are the responsible party, they get the final say until that child turns 18. CFS can go in and do their investigations but with several hundred calls coming in and a handful of CFS advocates there are a lot of cases falling through the cracks. We (the PD) aren't even able to talk to them without a parent/guardians permission and the parents can deny CFS from speaking at length with their child, again this is especially true if the parent isn't the one accused of abusing the child. Perhaps you don't know how many cases aren't brought forth, it is frustrating however parents control the rights of their children. It's not up to the county or State unless there is a serious need for the child to be removed. I can't tell you how many kids probably shouldn't be in their homes but still are...

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(- On a personal note I feel like I need to say that I haven't expressed what my opinion on this matter is at all on this thread. I've been approaching this purely from an intellectual level, not an emotional one. I am fascinated by the jurisdictional jockeying and what laws may actually apply. I have learned more than ever about what exactly my rights are when cruising and highly recommend that folks look into them on their own before setting sail. -)

I'm so happy you weighed in on this Dee, I was hoping to get your perspective.

I've spent a fair amount of time since this story broke reading the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act, amongst other pieces of documentation. From the research I've done on this one, in the State of Florida charges can be brought by the prosecutor, and the FL DA says that he would have done so in this case. At one point he even gave a quote saying something along the lines of parents (in general) not being smart enough to decide when action needs to be taken. That was pretty shocking to me in comparison to the laws in my state.

So here is my question for you as someone with law enforcement experience who knows what investigation time frames can be, and as a frequent cruiser who "gets" all the commotion that goes on on board a ship that's about to pull out of port. It's purely a procedural/ timeline question, has nothing to do with the alleged molestation at all.

3:22pm - The DCL security guard began his investigation
3:57pm - He took the girl back to the elevator as investigation continued
4:48pm- He had reviewed the video, and had a dining manager identify the alleged perpetrator
5:02pm - Ship pulls out of port

That means that from the time the encounter was first reported to DCL to the time the guy was identified was about 1 hour and 25 minutes, which included interviewing the girl, visiting the elevator with her, retrieving and reviewing video. That also means that the security guard had 14 minutes after having evidence before the ship pulled out of port. Not the two hours that the news keeps saying that there was. Ships face HUGE fines for leaving port late, and the Captain (who is ultimately responsible for everything that happens onboard) at that point would have been really busy, and all ships systems would have been in full gear for departure. I don't think that this was as easy as simply picking up the phone and calling the Port Police. In addition, there were possibly four different jurisdictions at play, Florida, US, Bahamian & International Maritime - plus neither the victim nor the alleged perpetrator were U.S. Citizens, which changes things even more.

Do you think that DCL's investigation was slow? I know that a lot of times the general public thinks things should happen faster because on TV it's all done in 5 minute segments. Was, in your opinion, this prelim investigation outrageously long?

From what I can gather DCL did follow the letter of the law. The questions here are more along the lines of who is it that gets to determine what "As Soon As Possible" is? -And- Should private security be allowed to conduct a preliminary investigation before calling in state or federal agencies?

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DisneyDee27 wrote:

Drew, Children and Family Services gets involved in case of parental/guardian neglect/abuse allegations. Juveniles can't put a statement on file without their parent/guardians permission because they are juveniles. I don't know where you live but that's how it works here. I've been a police officer for 12 years. There are numerous cases that I have worked where a parent didn't believe a child or didn't want to believe a child and as long as they are the responsible party, they get the final say until that child turns 18. CFS can go in and do their investigations but with several hundred calls coming in and a handful of CFS advocates there are a lot of cases falling through the cracks. We (the PD) aren't even able to talk to them without a parent/guardians permission and the parents can deny CFS from speaking at length with their child, again this is especially true if the parent isn't the one accused of abusing the child. Perhaps you don't know how many cases aren't brought forth, it is frustrating however parents control the rights of their children. It's not up to the county or State unless there is a serious need for the child to be removed. I can't tell you how many kids probably shouldn't be in their homes but still are...

I am from California, where the laws on this matter are different. As a dad, that makes me very sad and almost sick to know that OH operates that way. How many victimized children get ignored due to their parents lack of discernment. I am not a cop myself, but I do come from a cop family. I hear the stories almost weekly. It's amazing how many parents would deny their child justice in order to shelter their own criminal behavior from any legal attention.

Your last sentence hits home. It must be so frustrating as a police officer to see injustice happening to children, only to have your hands tied by irrelevant legislature.

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Kristen K, My answer has to be... they did it on their time. I don't think with all the hustle and bustle going on that it was a time delayed thing on Disney's part. They have protocols that they have to follow (and hoops to jump through)
Yes, I've cruised disney a lot and i've looked at their departure habits. I can only imagine how long it takes to get messages up the chain of command in which the top maybe three bosses have the authority to stop sail away...I can't say for sure that Disney wouldn't have if it was more serious but perhaps that was a factor.
We don't know the stance of the grandmother/guardian. Perhaps she wanted no further action because she didn't want to leave the ship and have to deal with the issue. Like I said before some people don't value the emotion cost of this ordeal to their children.
Traditionally DCL is pulling up planks at 4pm if not sooner and they are in lockdown mode as far as getting on or off. By your timeline above, this more than likely hasn't even gotten to the head of security let alone the captain. By 448 i think this is past the point of no return. Let's not forget that this isn't the only issue happening onboard. Only that crew knows what they were dealing with...I liken it to a conversation I had with a lady who had a legitimate although not serious incident within our city. I explained to her that while her issue was extremely important to her. It was not a high priority on our call list. I know that sounds harsh but a homicide, DV, felonious assault is gonna trump anything regarding a property dispute to us but to you if it's your issue it is A#1 in terms of importance. I know that this isn't on pair with that but as far as ongoings within the ship they prioritize to their levels.
TV is screwing up the reality of police work. I can't begin to tell you how many people expect "tv show results" when dealing with law enforcement. Things that happen on TV are based on some real activities but a lot of it, while entertaining is pure BS. Things have nice neat little packages with crimes being solved in neat 30-60 minute blocks and/or is edited to that time frame in which to make it entertaining. The only show i've really put some stock into is the first 48 and even that has it's editing issues.
I'm surprised at the FL law well not surprised really. I find it interesting that a prosecutor has that much control.
As for the should private entities have to call the authorities before they intervene. Everyday private and some public entities conduct their own investigations. We got called to Walgreen's but not until they had already apprehended their shoplifter and gotten his ID etc. They called us for the cleanup to put it mildly. That's the nature of business. They don't have to involve law enforcement until the bitter end. Not to pick on Catholics but that's a prime example of handling things in house and not involving law enforcement until they were forced too.

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carlsbaddrew wrote:
DisneyDee27 wrote:

Drew, Children and Family Services gets involved in case of parental/guardian neglect/abuse allegations. Juveniles can't put a statement on file without their parent/guardians permission because they are juveniles. I don't know where you live but that's how it works here. I've been a police officer for 12 years. There are numerous cases that I have worked where a parent didn't believe a child or didn't want to believe a child and as long as they are the responsible party, they get the final say until that child turns 18. CFS can go in and do their investigations but with several hundred calls coming in and a handful of CFS advocates there are a lot of cases falling through the cracks. We (the PD) aren't even able to talk to them without a parent/guardians permission and the parents can deny CFS from speaking at length with their child, again this is especially true if the parent isn't the one accused of abusing the child. Perhaps you don't know how many cases aren't brought forth, it is frustrating however parents control the rights of their children. It's not up to the county or State unless there is a serious need for the child to be removed. I can't tell you how many kids probably shouldn't be in their homes but still are...

I am from California, where the laws on this matter are different. As a dad, that makes me very sad and almost sick to know that OH operates that way. How many victimized children get ignored due to their parents lack of discernment. I am not a cop myself, but I do come from a cop family. I hear the stories almost weekly. It's amazing how many parents would deny their child justice in order to shelter their own criminal behavior from any legal attention.

Your last sentence hits home. It must be so frustrating as a police officer to see injustice happening to children, only to have your hands tied by irrelevant legislature.


Drew, I was born and raised in Southern California. I left CA after 27 years and have spent the last nearly 18 in Ohio. Let me tell you that it is night and day compared to Ohio.

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DisneyDee27 wrote:
TV is screwing up the reality of police work. I can't begin to tell you how many people expect "tv show results" when dealing with law enforcement. Things that happen on TV are based on some real activities but a lot of it, while entertaining is pure BS. Things have nice neat little packages with crimes being solved in neat 30-60 minute blocks and/or is edited to that time frame in which to make it entertaining. The only show i've really put some stock into is the first 48 and even that has it's editing issues.

This really disturbs me because it seems like even TV "News" can't report on realistic standards anymore. I really noticed it with the coverage of the Boston bombings, people wanted instant answers and things just don't happen like that. There's a huge trend towards unrealistic expectations.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on this with me Dee!

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We live in a "I want it now" world and that includes police work. Police aren't appreciated as they should be. Dee thank you for all you do to keep your community safe.

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Kristen K. wrote:
DisneyDee27 wrote:
TV is screwing up the reality of police work. I can't begin to tell you how many people expect "tv show results" when dealing with law enforcement. Things that happen on TV are based on some real activities but a lot of it, while entertaining is pure BS. Things have nice neat little packages with crimes being solved in neat 30-60 minute blocks and/or is edited to that time frame in which to make it entertaining. The only show i've really put some stock into is the first 48 and even that has it's editing issues.

This really disturbs me because it seems like even TV "News" can't report on realistic standards anymore. I really noticed it with the coverage of the Boston bombings, people wanted instant answers and things just don't happen like that. There's a huge trend towards unrealistic expectations.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on this with me Dee!

Anytime awesome

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PirateGirl wrote:
We live in a "I want it now" world and that includes police work. Police aren't appreciated as they should be. Dee thank you for all you do to keep your community safe.

Thank you for understanding. awesome
There are other LEOs here and/or those affiliated with law enforcement. Stay safe my Blue Line family! muchlove

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