Alligator snatches boy in the water at Seven Seas Lagoon

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TinkASL,

Walt Disney World for Grownups is a forum which discusses all things Disney, past, present & future. What did happen, will happen and what could happen.

No one was putting blame on anyone or even mentioned blame.

In my comment about the Croc being removed from the Electric Water Pageant, I was not making a joke, I was commenting on something that could happen, just like the removal of the joke from the Jungle Cruise which did happen.

I am sorry you are more sensitive to this death than I am, I truly am. I said I was truly sorry for the families loss which I am. I can't imagine what they are going through. It didn't happened to me.

Regarding your quote "If your kid had been dragged into the water and drowned by an alligator, a fate no parent from outside the Florida area would EVER even imagine could happen to their child, would you think that was funny?? "

I am not from Florida and I think about that every time I am at WDW, especially with my kids or grandkids. When I think of Florida, the first three things I think about is Disney, oranges & alligators. I warn people every trip about the alligators!

You want to call it being callous, fine, that is your opinion. You don't now how I deal with death. I was in Fire/Rescue for 10 years, I have held a woman, a mother, sister, daughter in my arms, her brain tissue on me, who died in a car accident becuase she didn't wear her seat belt. I held her because I thought she should be, I cried for days after a 5 years old boy burnt to death in a row home fire becuase he hid in the bathroom and got tipped. I have pulled four bodies from a smoldering vehicle after it hit a bridge abutment and burst into flames. The driver was drunk.

I am in law enforcement now and deal with death in some way shape or form everyday. I am the one that gets that call for help. The call that say "help, my child is bleeding" or "My husband is not breathing" or "My daughter is missing". I have to put pictures in our computer everyday and some are of death which I have to see.

Am I desensitized to death, maybe to a point. I'm sorry, it happens with the job.

Good day all.

Mark "MrHub"
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To the other moderators, if you think this needs to be removed, please do so as you see fit.

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Ken & Jan, we are thinking about you. sad

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MrHub wrote:
TinkASL,

Walt Disney World for Grownups is a forum which discusses all things Disney, past, present & future. What did happen, will happen and what could happen.


I understand this.

MrHub wrote:
No one was putting blame on anyone or even mentioned blame.

My comment about blame wasn't directed at anyone. It was just my thoughts for the day. This wasn't where my frustration with the discussion began.

MrHub wrote:
Regarding your quote "If your kid had been dragged into the water and drowned by an alligator, a fate no parent from outside the Florida area would EVER even imagine could happen to their child, would you think that was funny?? "
I am not from Florida and I think about that every time I am at WDW, especially with my kids or grandkids. When I think of Florida, the first three things I think about is Disney, oranges & alligators. I warn people every trip about the alligators!

I restate then that MOST parents don't think about this. You aren't the norm. I'm glad you've thought about it and I'm glad you warn people about it, but most people don't receive that warning. I personally have never had that warning, know that gators live in the area, have looked for them myself and STILL wouldn't have considered it. Foolish me, I know. But I know I'm not alone.

MrHub wrote:
I am in law enforcement now and deal with death in some way shape or form everyday. I am the one that gets that call for help. The call that say "help, my child is bleeding" or "My husband is not breathing" or "My daughter is missing". I have to put pictures in our computer everyday and some are of death which I have to see.

Am I desensitized to death, maybe to a point. I'm sorry, it happens with the job.


Thank you for what you do. I can only try to imagine what a tough job it must be. And I'm sorry that you have been desensitized to it, but lots of people haven't. And I know that if this had happened to me and I were to see or hear comments like this it wouldn't be funny. It was not just the "discussion" of what was happening. It was what appeared to be a tone of annoyance that things might change.

Since my comments appear to be unpopular to the point of discussing removing this thread, and I am the only person who doesn't think the "jokes" are funny, I will just step away. Then you may all deal with your grief in any way you see fit and no more threads will need to be removed.

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MrHub wrote:
Ken & Jan, we are thinking about you. sad

Thanks!

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It's been a really tough week for Orlando. I'm so sorry for that family's loss. Look, I know a lot of people have very strong opinions about who's responsible for the loss of the child. But I think the family knows better and they don't need thousands or millions of angry parents telling them the exact same thing over and over again. (Same holds true for Cincinnati Zoo incident with the 4 year old and the gorilla.) As the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20. The worst part is there's nothing we can do that will bring back the child or being able to change the past. It's an experience that the family will never ever get over.

For me, there's a time and place for everything and I personally feel that any jokes or laughing matters about this whole ordeal is best summed up in two words: Too soon. (A phrase used to respond to someone making a comment that was intended to be funny, but touches on subject matter that shouldn't be joked about, usually because it was a recent event.) Gilbert Gottfried landed in hot water for making tsunami jokes right after the Japan earthquake in 2011 if you remember.
But I won't hold any hard feelings if people disagree with me. Humor may work as a coping method for some, but not for all.

It's still a terrible event but lessons will be learned from this and will stick for life for some people.

KenJ, I'm also so sorry for your loss.

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Sorry for your loss KenJ

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Thanks everyone. Completely off topic, but a bit of a further explanation...

My mom was diagnosed with breast cancer 2 years ago this month. She went through the usual treatments, chemo, surgery (single mastectomy) and then radiation. Last July, when the treatments were over, she was told they couldn't find any more cancer. Then 2 months later, it returned. Surgery was no longer an option so they tried to treat it with various chemo coctails. Nothing was working and the cancer spread.

On May 5th, she was admitted to hospital to have one lung drained of fluid. It became apparent that the chemo was doing more harm than good. At that point, she became palliative.

For the last 6 weeks, I spent a lot of time with her. We had some great talks. We shared laughs and we shared tears. But throughout it all, she remained positive and had her usual smile. She loved life and was very grateful, something she said over and over.

This past Monday, at 11:00 am, she passed away. We, her immediate family, were with her when she died and she went peacefully. We had her funeral service yesterday. She was 73 years old.

The whole story is an all too familiar one unfortunately as I know that many of us have dealt with this deadly disease in some form or another. I really hope they do find a cure someday.

To tie things back to Disney, it is because of my mom that I was introduced to Disney World. My parents took all of us to Disney in April, 2010. I had never been there before. I had no idea that I would fall in love with the place like I did and now 12 trips or so later, the rest is, as they say, history.

Anyway, I know this is off topic for this thread, but it does deal with loss of a loved one. No death is easy on those left behind.

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My condolences KenJ.

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KenJ I am so sorry for your loss.

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So sorry for your loss Ken. I'm sure you will treasure all those talks over the past 6 weeks. My condolences to you and your family.

As for the original board topic, I saw this morning they are putting up fences along the beaches and I do think they are facing a lawsuit because they don't mention alligators just swimming.

Also, I don't think anyone on this board would ever try to make light of what happened or is in any way disrespecting the family. That's not the type of community here Smile

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Thanks everyone.

Regarding a lawsuit against Disney, I wouldn't be surprised that they are sued because we live in a overly litigious society. The "company" is always blamed for things that are not their fault it seems. Disney is not responsible for this incident in my opinion.

And again, my Croc shoes comment was to poke fun at the over-reaction to things like this. Ridiculous changes are usually made to appease over-sensitive types. Removing references to alligators and crocodiles is totally ridiculous. Should we really pretend alligators don't exist?

People die tragically in many different ways each day. Should we remove references to things like cars, planes, lightning, diseases etc.? When that race car accident occurred at Disney World a couple of years ago, should they have shut down Test Track to avoid offending people? Life needs to just continue.

The most ridiculous thing I've seen was at Niagara Falls a few years ago. We were walking along the walled edge and came across a section about 10 feet wide where they had erected an 8 foot metal fence. There was no obvious reason as to why it was there. A parks officer happened to come along and I asked him what it was for. He said that someone had jumped from that spot a few days earlier. So they put a fence up in that one spot. It was obviously just for show. You could walk 5 feet to the left or right and jump if you wanted to. The whole thing was just stupid.

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Okay, on the one hand, the signs did not say "swim at your own risk." They said "no swimming." Period, full stop, end of sentence.

On the other hand, people from places like Nebraska or Saskatchewan or England, upon seeing a body of water, don't even think gator. And kids can't read, and even the most attentive parent might not notice little Timmy has got his feet in the water until it's too late.

So of course Disney is putting up fences, which will serve to visually reinforce the "no swimming." They'll put up gator warning signs. And they'll reach a very generous financial settlement with the bereaved family out of court if at all possible. And no more crocs eating kids jokes, but eventually the croc will be back in the parade and the gator will be back in the show and life will get back to normal for all of us except that poor family from Nebraska. God bless and comfort them.

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And Ken, my sincerest condolences on your loss.

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CCP - Us English do think gator the majority of Brits are planners and researchers have you seen some of the Brit sites!?

G and I have talked about this and he said Disney is about education through fun so getting rid of jokes on the JC and not mentioning the Nile crocs is counter productive. If the is a dog attack in Disney would Pluto and Goofy be removed? ( and no not being flippant here). At the end of the day there are horrendous things happening to children (and adults) throughout the world that we don't hear about all day everyday we need some balance and perspective. And yes I am sorry for that family but I am also sorry for the families throughout the world who lose children through accident, violence and sudden unexplained death but that's it I don't ask or want for things to be removed.

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I just read a comment on one of articles posted on facebook that Disney worked with Florida Preservationists to put alligators in the lakes. I asked for her source. I had never heard that before. Has anyone?

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Fences are being put up at all beaches on Walt Disney World property, along jokes being taken out of the Jungle Cruise, Tic Tock was taken out of the Festival of Fantasy parade, Louis was taken out of the new castle show, the alligator in Dinoland was removed, the Typhoon/Blizzard gator is rumored to be removed and Tic Tock eating hook at the end of Peter Pan's Flight is also being considered to change so tic tock is no longer eating hook. Safari is supposedly not giving out information about the Nile crocs as well. Sea Racyers are currently not being rented out as well. Their are cast members at the beaches keeping an eye out for Gatorade or something like that. Almost references to gators and crocs are being removed or changed due to this attack

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Mandy wrote:
Fences are being put up at all beaches on Walt Disney World property, along jokes being taken out of the Jungle Cruise, Tic Tock was taken out of the Festival of Fantasy parade, Louis was taken out of the new castle show, the alligator in Dinoland was removed, the Typhoon/Blizzard gator is rumored to be removed and Tic Tock eating hook at the end of Peter Pan's Flight is also being considered to change so tic tock is no longer eating hook. Safari is supposedly not giving out information about the Nile crocs as well. Sea Racyers are currently not being rented out as well. Their are cast members at the beaches keeping an eye out for Gatorade or something like that. Almost references to gators and crocs are being removed or changed due to this attack

They've gone insane. Thank god the kid wasn't killed by a rat.

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Mandy wrote:
Fences are being put up at all beaches on Walt Disney World property, along jokes being taken out of the Jungle Cruise, Tic Tock was taken out of the Festival of Fantasy parade, Louis was taken out of the new castle show, the alligator in Dinoland was removed, the Typhoon/Blizzard gator is rumored to be removed and Tic Tock eating hook at the end of Peter Pan's Flight is also being considered to change so tic tock is no longer eating hook. Safari is supposedly not giving out information about the Nile crocs as well. Sea Racyers are currently not being rented out as well. Their are cast members at the beaches keeping an eye out for Gatorade or something like that. Almost references to gators and crocs are being removed or changed due to this attack

I can't imagine what the poor family is going through and I can 100% agree with taking the joke out of Jungle Cruise but the rest I think is way to far.

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They've gone WAY overboard IMO. This is what I meant by over-reaction. Now the Croc shoes comment doesn't sound too far off. Ban anything that refers to crocs or gators. See what I mean?

Totally ridiculous.

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Yep too far. None of these changes will prevent this from happening again. In fact, I find it counter productive. Don't make people "forget" about gators. Remind them! Educate them! The only people that don't need to see references to crocs is that poor boys family and I seriously doubt that they'll ever return.

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I was wondering about Alligator Bayou at Riverside? What do you think they will do there?

Also crocodiles are not alligators, they are a different animal. So why remove crocodile references?

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I call bs with all of the changes. Especially with all of character changes in the parks.

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I've been thinking about this whole situation long and hard and there are no easy answers. NO ONE is to blame, not Disney, not the parents, not the child. It is just an accident, no rhyme or reason and it is just sad. I admit, I have seen the "No Swimming" signs and still gone to the waters edge, never even thinking that an alligator could be lurking. Then again, I am also from Nebraska. If we see water, we generally don't worry about reptiles attacking us. My sister knows this family. They are good people, conscientious parents who just wanted to have a wonderful vacation with their kids. What a nightmare it turned into for them. I am glad that Disney is putting up new signage that says gators might be present. I do think taking away EVERY reference to gators is going too far. I am also in the camp that thinks the "croc" comment was made too soon. My prayers are with the Graves family.

KenJ - so sorry to hear about your mom. It is hard to lose someone you love. My sympathies and prayers are with you too.

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They (Disney) appear to have forgotten about the gator in Splash Mountain (not the real one that used to be at the bottom of the drop) the one biting Brer foxes tail, also in the song.

Do you think Disney are fed up with people looking for hidden Mickeys and are introducing spot the Gator on the rides etc instead?!

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Mandy wrote:
Fences are being put up at all beaches on Walt Disney World property, along jokes being taken out of the Jungle Cruise, Tic Tock was taken out of the Festival of Fantasy parade, Louis was taken out of the new castle show, the alligator in Dinoland was removed, the Typhoon/Blizzard gator is rumored to be removed and Tic Tock eating hook at the end of Peter Pan's Flight is also being considered to change so tic tock is no longer eating hook. Safari is supposedly not giving out information about the Nile crocs as well. Sea Racyers are currently not being rented out as well. Their are cast members at the beaches keeping an eye out for Gatorade or something like that. Almost references to gators and crocs are being removed or changed due to this attack

This is absolutely insane to me. I feel horrible for the family and their loss and understand Disney upping their safety measures but taking out ever reference to a crocodile or alligator in the park is just ridiculous. I am not in the position these parents are in and don't know the pain they are dealing with, but I can't imagine that even they expect or feel it is necessary to pull every character, animatronic, or mention of gators in the park. That does nothing to enhance anyone's safety or well being in any way.

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Mandy I am curious about your comment regarding cast members looking for Gatoraide on the beaches? Does this mean Gatoraide is no longer sold or allowed too I wonder?

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disneydoc wrote:
Mandy I am curious about your comment regarding cast members looking for Gatoraide on the beaches? Does this mean Gatoraide is no longer sold or allowed too I wonder?

Not Gatorade lol Gators the animals lol sorry it must of been autocorrect. Disney doesn't sell Gatorade, They sell powerade since its a Coca-Cola product.

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aha that makes sense! I was picturing CMS walking up and down beaches on drink patrol. mickey

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http://www.chipandco.com/disney-bans-fishing-walt-disney-world-243233/

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TinkASL wrote:

Oh come on now. Those are all very different things. Removing one small joke that right now has a very personal edge to it is appropriate. And we're getting upset about them adding fences or removing floats that haven't even happened yet and very well may not happen.

Well, they've made these changes and much much more. People are rightfully upset. Almost every day, I hear about something else that is being changed or removed. They've gone off the deep end with the changes they're making. Pure madness. Let's all pretend that alligators don't exist shall we? The World is so much safer with the removal of any references to alligators after all. Is the general public really that naive?

The over-reaction is mind boggling. Again, I wish people could just aknowledge that fact that this was an extremely rare occurrence. New signage is all that is really needed, and even that is questionable IMO. "No swimming" to me means stay out of the water.

And the now removed joke from Jungle Cruise is truth when you think about it.