Okay, Just tell me...

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 20:47

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Okay, Just tell me...

We're becoming 'yearly' Disney vacationers and so the topic of being part of the DVC has come up. Unfortunately we haven't had a chance to speak to a DVC expert yet.

I guess I'd like to know the basics before I go calling them. Is this basically like owning a timeshare? What is the cost per month, in dollars terms, not points terms. I mean, how much money are you initially shelling out? Are you taking out a loan for this? What are you paying monthly then and for how long?

So many people are telling me to look int becoming a DVC member or renting points from DVC members and I R dumb because I don't fully understand it

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:08

MouseTraveler

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UnbalancedLibra wrote:

We're becoming 'yearly' Disney vacationers and so the topic of being part of the DVC has come up. Unfortunately we haven't had a chance to speak to a DVC expert yet.

So many people are telling me to look int becoming a DVC member or renting points from DVC members and I R dumb because I don't fully understand it

OK, we've been a member since 1995 at Old Key West, so I'll throw my two cents worth in.

It is a timeshare, but it is a Cadillac timeshare. Hilton and Hyatt offer similar programs, but they aren't Disney. You also have the option of trading out into the regular timeshare world if you want to go to a 'non-Disney' location.

In over 14 years of ownership, I have YET to find an owner who wasn't happy with the purchase. (Well, there was ONE on a Facebook group I belonged to, but I think SHE wouldn't have been happy no matter what.)

In that time, we've used the points to stay at nearly every DVC resorts, most WDW hotels, we've been on multiple cruises, stayed at Disneyland a few times, AND we've used points for non-Disney excursions like Hawaii and Washington, DC.

Your posting addresses one of my primary loves for this concept. Since 1995, I've taken my father countless times to Orlando and a couple of times to Anaheim, and did it using DVC. Had it been a cash deal, I probably couldn't have done it for the length, or the quality that I wanted to.

First of all, if you want it for an investment, most people say it may not be the best. If you want it because you love Disney, and want that 'special affiliation' with Disney, then it may be for you.

It is a basic timeshare, but done the Disney way. I think if you buy from Disney, you have to buy a minimum of 150 points, and they'll run around a hundred dollars a point or so. You can buy from resellers at various resorts and get them cheaper, but your ownership time will expire sooner than if you buy them direct. You can weigh that option. Your ownership is usually around 50 years. I think ours expires in 2044.

In contrast, when we bought our DVC points in early '95, I think we paid around $60 or $62 a point for them. Disney had a nice finance program and we paid for it over 7 years.

I've met people with a thousand points and they wanted more. We've had 230 points since the day we bought in and that has done us fine. We tend to be very frugal with our point usage. For example, I'd rather stretch them out in a smaller room than use them MUCH quicker for a bigger room, but thats just us. We always have the OPTION of the bigger room, and last summer we actually did get a 2 bedroom at OKW.

As for yearly cost, you're going to pay a maintenance fee that is going to vary. I think my fee for this year was around $800 based on 230 points. (I'm sure you can find this elsewhere)

There are WAY too many questions to be answered in one writing, but I'll be glad to address specifics.

For me though, if I was buying points today, and knowing what I know now, I would probably look at the resellers market where people can get an incredible deal from people trying to move their points. Make sure you weigh the fact the reseller points will probably expire sooner than new points. That may make up part of the cost difference.

But, points bought on the secondary market are exactly the same as those bought directly from Disney.

One other tip. Over the years, we've been able to milk our points tremendously by primarily staying in the resorts Sunday through Thursday only. These days have been MUCH cheaper than Friday and Saturday. Many times we've gone to Orlando on a Saturday, stayed in a moderate or value resort and then switched hotels on Sunday to one of the DVC resorts. Its a great way to stretch your points, although Disney is supposed to realign the points charts next year (I think) to even this out a bit.

And one OTHER final thing. I believe DVC has done deals in the past where if you look at the property EARLY in your trip, and decide to purchase, you can apply what you would have spent on hotel, etc., to the purchase and move over to your resort (if available).

It would be really cool if something like that were available for you.

If you'd like the name of a couple of guys that work for DVC, I can send you some. We have a rep that is assigned to us, and there is another guy that has been on two cruises we were on (they sell on the ships) and he has been great to work with.

Also, if you want a long, serious conversation on it, us DVC members are like AmWay salesman, and we're always willing to talk. Make a list of questions and we can hop on the phone sometime and I'll answer questions to the best of my ability.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:16

UnbalancedLibra

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MouseTraveler wrote:

OK, we've been a member since 1995 at Old Key West, so I'll throw my two cents worth in.

It is a timeshare, but it is a Cadillac timeshare. Hilton and Hyatt offer similar programs, but they aren't Disney. You also have the option of trading out into the regular timeshare world if you want to go to a 'non-Disney' location.

In over 14 years of ownership, I have YET to find an owner who wasn't happy with the purchase. (Well, there was ONE on a Facebook group I belonged to, but I think SHE wouldn't have been happy no matter what.)

In that time, we've used the points to stay at nearly every DVC resorts, most WDW hotels, we've been on multiple cruises, stayed at Disneyland a few times, AND we've used points for non-Disney excursions like Hawaii and Washington, DC.

Your posting addresses one of my primary loves for this concept. Since 1995, I've taken my father countless times to Orlando and a couple of times to Anaheim, and did it using DVC. Had it been a cash deal, I probably couldn't have done it for the length, or the quality that I wanted to.

First of all, if you want it for an investment, most people say it may not be the best. If you want it because you love Disney, and want that 'special affiliation' with Disney, then it may be for you.

It is a basic timeshare, but done the Disney way. I think if you buy from Disney, you have to buy a minimum of 150 points, and they'll run around a hundred dollars a point or so. You can buy from resellers at various resorts and get them cheaper, but your ownership time will expire sooner than if you buy them direct. You can weigh that option. Your ownership is usually around 50 years. I think ours expires in 2044.

In contrast, when we bought our DVC points in early '95, I think we paid around $60 or $62 a point for them. Disney had a nice finance program and we paid for it over 7 years.

I've met people with a thousand points and they wanted more. We've had 230 points since the day we bought in and that has done us fine. We tend to be very frugal with our point usage. For example, I'd rather stretch them out in a smaller room than use them MUCH quicker for a bigger room, but thats just us. We always have the OPTION of the bigger room, and last summer we actually did get a 2 bedroom at OKW.

As for yearly cost, you're going to pay a maintenance fee that is going to vary. I think my fee for this year was around $800 based on 230 points. (I'm sure you can find this elsewhere)

There are WAY too many questions to be answered in one writing, but I'll be glad to address specifics.

For me though, if I was buying points today, and knowing what I know now, I would probably look at the resellers market where people can get an incredible deal from people trying to move their points. Make sure you weigh the fact the reseller points will probably expire sooner than new points. That may make up part of the cost difference.

But, points bought on the secondary market are exactly the same as those bought directly from Disney.

One other tip. Over the years, we've been able to milk our points tremendously by primarily staying in the resorts Sunday through Thursday only. These days have been MUCH cheaper than Friday and Saturday. Many times we've gone to Orlando on a Saturday, stayed in a moderate or value resort and then switched hotels on Sunday to one of the DVC resorts. Its a great way to stretch your points, although Disney is supposed to realign the points charts next year (I think) to even this out a bit.

And one OTHER final thing. I believe DVC has done deals in the past where if you look at the property EARLY in your trip, and decide to purchase, you can apply what you would have spent on hotel, etc., to the purchase and move over to your resort (if available).

It would be really cool if something like that were available for you.

If you'd like the name of a couple of guys that work for DVC, I can send you some. We have a rep that is assigned to us, and there is another guy that has been on two cruises we were on (they sell on the ships) and he has been great to work with.

Also, if you want a long, serious conversation on it, us DVC members are like AmWay salesman, and we're always willing to talk. Make a list of questions and we can hop on the phone sometime and I'll answer questions to the best of my ability.

Okay, let me see if I have the basics right...using 230 points as an example. 230 points at $100/point is $23,000. So, I pay $23,000 to Disney and now I have 230 points a year to play with. I can stay at a villa that is say, 40 points a night, for 5 nights - that's 200 points out of my 230, am I on the right track?

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:22

MouseTraveler

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UnbalancedLibra wrote:

Okay, let me see if I have the basics right...using 230 points as an example. 230 points at $100/point is $23,000. So, I pay $23,000 to Disney and now I have 230 points a year to play with. I can stay at a villa that is say, 40 points a night, for 5 nights - that's 200 points out of my 230, am I on the right track?

Absolutely correct, and don't forget that you can bank points for one year and borrow from the next.

So if you used your 200 points that way, you could bank the other 30 for the next year, giving you 260 to use then.

You could also borrow the entire allotment from the FOLLOWING year.

So you'd have the following -

30 you banked from last year
230 which you get yearly
230 borrowed from NEXT year

490 Total for one year

Of course you'd now have a year with no points, but think of what you could do with two years worth of points AND a few left over.

(AND you could always borrow a few from the fourth year into the third so you could get a "fix")

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:26

MouseTraveler

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That previous reply is a bit confusing. (The banking and borrowing part)

In a nutshell...

In any given year you can use the following points.

1) Points that you banked from the previous year
2) The current year's usage points
3) Points borrowed from the FOLLOWING usage year

That may clear it up a bit.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:27

UnbalancedLibra

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MouseTraveler wrote:

UnbalancedLibra wrote:

Okay, let me see if I have the basics right...using 230 points as an example. 230 points at $100/point is $23,000. So, I pay $23,000 to Disney and now I have 230 points a year to play with. I can stay at a villa that is say, 40 points a night, for 5 nights - that's 200 points out of my 230, am I on the right track?

Absolutely correct, and don't forget that you can bank points for one year and borrow from the next.

So if you used your 200 points that way, you could bank the other 30 for the next year, giving you 260 to use then.

You could also borrow the entire allotment from the FOLLOWING year.

So you'd have the following -

30 you banked from last year
230 which you get yearly
230 borrowed from NEXT year

490 Total for one year

Of course you'd now have a year with no points, but think of what you could do with two years worth of points AND a few left over.

(AND you could always borrow a few from the fourth year into the third so you could get a "fix")

Okay, I see...so the initial 'problem' is coming up with the $23,000

I've seen heated discussions regarding this - some people take out loans and some people think that is a huge no -no because this is a luxury purchase. If we'd do this, we would not take out a loan, so I'd have to save to make the initial purchase...that means 2 years or so with NO WDW vacation

It would be worth it though, for us, I think. First of all, we are a large family - at least 6 of us go every year, so villas are best to stay in. Over the last 2 years we've probably spent a good $12,000 on vacationing and this next year I am already looking at prices of $5,000 - $6,000 for 7 days - but tat includes park hopper passes, etc.

So, once you buy points, assuming you pay for them out right, when you vacation you basically have to budget for food and park admission...plus the yearly maintenance fees...

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:36

MouseTraveler

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UnbalancedLibra wrote:

Okay, I see...so the initial 'problem' is coming up with the $23,000

So, once you buy points, assuming you pay for them out right, when you vacation you basically have to budget for food and park admission...plus the yearly maintenance fees...

Yeah, the 23 grand would be a pain.

But consider this. What if you bought your points on the secondary market at a discounted rate, and didn't have to buy them all at once?

Check out this website. http://www.dvcbyresale.com/

You can buy points now at some place like Vero, for as little as $60 a point, and on property (say at OKW) in the low to mid 70's.

Your Vero points would be just as usable at WDW as any other point, you just can't make your reservation as early. (You can book 11 months in advance at your home resort, 7 at others, I think)

So if you had a two year plan, and bought a hundred points or so at Vero this year, you REALLYYYYYY stretch them for use at WDW this year, maybe using less accomodations.

Then, the following year, you pick up another hundred or so at a Disney property for a little more per point.

In two years, you've got the same number of points, and you've saved probably 25-30% or more on your costs.

The Vero thing is not that bizarre. We have two friends from the UK that have Vero points AND others, and they use them for everything.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:41

UnbalancedLibra

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MouseTraveler wrote:

UnbalancedLibra wrote:
Okay, I see...so the initial 'problem' is coming up with the $23,000

So, once you buy points, assuming you pay for them out right, when you vacation you basically have to budget for food and park admission...plus the yearly maintenance fees...

Whoa, now you're making my head hurt

Okay, so I purchase 160 points on the resell market for $60/point ( as an example) and pay $9,600 - now I have 160 points to 'spend' for vacation. I use them. Next year I buy another 160 points at $60 - I know have a total of 320 points to use yearly?

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:44

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UnbalancedLibra wrote:

Okay, I see...so the initial 'problem' is coming up with the $23,000

So, once you buy points, assuming you pay for them out right, when you vacation you basically have to budget for food and park admission...plus the yearly maintenance fees...

Keep in mind that if you take out a loan, especially if you finance it with them, your purchase is considered as a "second home". Depending on how you do your taxes, you may be able to deduct some or all of your interest payment on it.

Since you said that you go to WDW once a year, you need to see how much you spend on each of the trip on your accommodations. If you are used to saying at a Deluxe-type resort, then a DVC membership is certainly worthwhile in terms of finances. But if you are used to budget accommodations, then it may not save you money if THAT is your primary concern.

Also note that if you intend to buy soon, buying into BLT might be a good move since it has the lowest maintenance fees. You just have to decide very soon before they are sold out considering the limited amount of rooms that they have.

Zz.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:46

bali

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That's a great point, MT. Buying points at less expensive "home" resorts like Vero and Hilton Head at re-sale costs is a good idea.

And I've rarely heard that people have a problem getting the resort they want just because they have to wait until the 7-month window to book.

UL--If you're spending $5-6K per year right now, this might be a great idea to consider. DVC folks haven't ever pressured me when I've spoken to them on the phone or in the DVC center at WDW. They're pretty easy-going and willing to answer any and all questions.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:46

UnbalancedLibra

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ZapperZ wrote:

UnbalancedLibra wrote:

Okay, I see...so the initial 'problem' is coming up with the $23,000

So, once you buy points, assuming you pay for them out right, when you vacation you basically have to budget for food and park admission...plus the yearly maintenance fees...

Zz.

I don't think taking out a loan to do this would be a good move, although you brought up some good points about taxes and such. Because there are at least 6 of us that go we either need a big villa or 2 rooms, so we are looking to spend about $4,000 - $5,000 every year - but that includes dining and park hopping.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:46

MouseTraveler

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UnbalancedLibra wrote:

[Whoa, now you're making my head hurt

Bingo. Each point is at a "home resort". If you bought at Vero this year, and Sarasota next, those would be your home resorts.

The ONLY thing that would be different would be that you'd have to wait until seven months out to make reservations at a NON 'home resort" property.

But we've had discussions about this in here, and in all my years I can't remember anyone not getting in where they wanted. Disney has an excellent wait list program.

The only time I was unable to use it was when I made a change and a request within 30 days of my vacation.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:47

bali

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UnbalancedLibra wrote:

Okay, so I purchase 160 points on the resell market for $60/point ( as an example) and pay $9,600 - now I have 160 points to 'spend' for vacation. I use them. Next year I buy another 160 points at $60 - I know have a total of 320 points to use yearly?

That's exactly right.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:48

UnbalancedLibra

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bali wrote:

That's a great point, MT. Buying points at less expensive "home" resorts like Vero and Hilton Head at re-sale costs is a good idea.

And I've rarely heard that people have a problem getting the resort they want just because they have to wait until the 7-month window to book.

Yes, we are getting to the point where all 3 kids 'count' Wyatt is my baby and he'll be 3 in November and since we usually take my MIL along and pay for her, our annual vacation bill is always going to be $5,000 or more - whether we do a suite, a villa or book 2 rooms

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:50

bali

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Yeah. Not a bad idea to make a list of questions and get a DVC rep on the phone with you and CJ. Couldn't hurt.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:50

MouseTraveler

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You might want to check out going one year on points. There are always people on Ebay or other places wanting to sell a limited number of points for one year, etc.

I saw a guy somewhere the other day that was trying to move around 190 points this year at $8 a point.

You could try without buying that way.

And just so you feel comfortable about it, I actually sold some last year on Ebay, and I had to jump through a BUNCH of hoops so people would be sure it was a legit deal.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:52

UnbalancedLibra

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MouseTraveler wrote:

UnbalancedLibra wrote:
[Whoa, now you're making my head hurt

Soooo, say I buy 160 points at Vero next year (January) - I can use those points right away for a vacation (not sure what I'd get for a measly 160 points but for argument's sake...staying at vero or any other DVC resort?) Then, in 2011 I buy more points at Sarasota. Because Vero and Sarasota are my 'home' resorts, I can book those up to 11 months in advance but if I want to stay at boardwalk, I must wait until 7 months prior to book?

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:53

bali

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MouseTraveler wrote:

You might want to check out going one year on points. There are always people on Ebay or other places wanting to sell a limited number of points for one year, etc.

I saw a guy somewhere the other day that was trying to move around 190 points this year at $8 a point.

You could try without buying that way.

And just so you feel comfortable about it, I actually sold some last year on Ebay, and I had to jump through a BUNCH of hoops so people would be sure it was a legit deal.

Yep--we "rented" points from a great guy for several years for $11 per point. It was amazing to stay in a Deluxe resort for over $1000 less than it would have cost us to do so at rack rates.

UL--if you're considering this, you're more than welcome to PM me and we can chat about how it works.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:53

bali

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UnbalancedLibra wrote:

Soooo, say I buy 160 points at Vero next year (January) - I can use those points right away for a vacation (not sure what I'd get for a measly 160 points but for argument's sake...staying at vero or any other DVC resort?) Then, in 2011 I buy more points at Sarasota. Because Vero and Sarasota are my 'home' resorts, I can book those up to 11 months in advance but if I want to stay at boardwalk, I must wait until 7 months prior to book?

Yep. That's right.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:54

MouseTraveler

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UnbalancedLibra wrote:

Soooo, say I buy 160 points at Vero next year (January) - I can use those points right away for a vacation (not sure what I'd get for a measly 160 points but for argument's sake...staying at vero or any other DVC resort?) Then, in 2011 I buy more points at Sarasota. Because Vero and Sarasota are my 'home' resorts, I can book those up to 11 months in advance but if I want to stay at boardwalk, I must wait until 7 months prior to book?

You got it, and see? Your head DIDN'T explode!

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:55

UnbalancedLibra

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bali wrote:

MouseTraveler wrote:
You might want to check out going one year on points. There are always people on Ebay or other places wanting to sell a limited number of points for one year, etc.

I saw a guy somewhere the other day that was trying to move around 190 points this year at $8 a point.

You could try without buying that way.

And just so you feel comfortable about it, I actually sold some last year on Ebay, and I had to jump through a BUNCH of hoops so people would be sure it was a legit deal.

Ahhh, renting points - someone mentioned I do that on another board. So I don't own but someone who does own and can't use their points or whatever, will rent to me, usually at a discounted rate.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 21:59

bali

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UnbalancedLibra wrote:

Ahhh, renting points - someone mentioned I do that on another board. So I don't own but someone who does own and can't use their points or whatever, will rent to me, usually at a discounted rate.

Yes. It's another whole can of worms!

Right now, because maintenance fees have gone up, people usually charge $12-$13 per point, but it's a good opportunity to try out DVC.

The main concern with this is that you're pretty much trusting your vacation to someone else--they have to book it, confirm it, pay for it, etc. You just send them your personal check. There are "escrow" systems online to keep it a bit more legit, but if you can find someone you trust to rent from, it's a good alternative.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 22:01

MouseTraveler

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If you buy them on Ebay you should be ok.

I had to actually fax them my DEED so that they would give me some number that qualified me to sell on there.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 22:03

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MouseTraveler that was very well stated and got the basics of DVC across I would just like to add that I LOVE my DVC membership wife and I own 210 points and with going during the "value" season we can easily get 2 full weeks at my home resort which is SSR in a studio, of course the busier times of the year require more points . Right now I am booked at SSR and at 7 months out I will attempt to transfer that reservation to Animal Kingdom Lodge. I have never failed to get a change to another DVC resort, of course some of those other resorts may cost you a few more points and likewise some may even cost you less like OKW. the points charts are available. And another thing to consider (especially at my age ) is that my children can inherit the points if my 50 years or whatever it is, is not up yet. Also something that I would like to point out is that if you take a DVC tour while you are at the parks, there is NO high pressure selling at all. To sum it up, I love my DVC. Like MouseTraveler said if you have any more questions feel free to ask.

I just noticed a lot more posts since I have been typing my response so forgive me if I repeated some things. (slow at typing )

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 22:04

MouseTraveler

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I would concur that they are the most low pressure sales team in history...

They don't want you to buy it if you don't want or need it. They'll give you incentives to buy, but you sure don't feel pressured to.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 22:07

admin

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Agreed. Totally low-pressure when we visited this past February.

Sun, 05/10/2009 - 22:23

UnbalancedLibra

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Joined: 01/26/2009

Posts: 748

Vettelover wrote:

MouseTraveler that was very well stated and got the basics of DVC across I would just like to add that I LOVE my DVC membership wife and I own 210 points and with going during the "value" season we can easily get 2 full weeks at my home resort which is SSR in a studio, of course the busier times of the year require more points . Right now I am booked at SSR and at 7 months out I will attempt to transfer that reservation to Animal Kingdom Lodge. I have never failed to get a change to another DVC resort, of course some of those other resorts may cost you a few more points and likewise some may even cost you less like OKW. the points charts are available. And another thing to consider (especially at my age ) is that my children can inherit the points if my 50 years or whatever it is, is not up yet. Also something that I would like to point out is that if you take a DVC tour while you are at the parks, there is NO high pressure selling at all. To sum it up, I love my DVC. Like MouseTraveler said if you have any more questions feel free to ask.

I just noticed a lot more posts since I have been typing my response so forgive me if I repeated some things. (slow at typing )

Thanks for your input! I wish I would stumble upon $20,000

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 22:28

ZapperZ

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Joined: 08/30/2008

Posts: 3555

BTW, in case you don't know, if you end up buying and you used another member's name as a "referral", that member will receive something in return from DVC.

So, in case you do plan on purchasing, if you have no other member to use as a referral, I'm sure one of us here would be more than happy if you could use our names. It would be such a waste not to.

Zz.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 22:34

Vettelover

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Joined: 03/28/2009

Posts: 4658

ZapperZ wrote:

BTW, in case you don't know, if you end up buying and you used another member's name as a "referral", that member will receive something in return from DVC.

So, in case you do plan on purchasing, if you have no other member to use as a referral, I'm sure one of us here would be more than happy if you could use our names. It would be such a waste not to.

Zz.

Yes I am sure quite a few of us would be more than happy to PM you with our DVC guides name and our name and address.

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Sun, 05/10/2009 - 23:58

UnbalancedLibra

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Posts: 748

Heehe, I'd have to pick a name out of a hat!!!

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Mon, 05/11/2009 - 01:34

MouseTraveler

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Joined: 01/15/2009

Posts: 919

OR...

you could count the information given 'by the word' BEFORE the masses jumped in to agree.....

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