Queen Elizabeth II

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Thu, 05/17/2012 - 19:37

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Queen Elizabeth II

With the Queen of England/Britain celebrating her diamond Jubilee on June 2nd, it got me thinking about the British monarchy and how they are seen by others.

A bit about the queen, she is the second longest serving British monarch and is also the head of the Church of England. Up until recently the Heir to the thrown would be the eldest male even if that male was the youngest child. If no male heir it would revert to the eldest female. This law was changed so that it is now the eldest child who is the rightful Heir regardless of sex.

Now I have bored you, what is the general feeling about the Queen and the Royal family?

Are you glad that you have a presidential system or would you rather have a Royal family?

I love the fact that we have a Royal Family however not everyone in the country shares my views.

I've always wondered what the general feeling is from the outside.

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Thu, 05/17/2012 - 20:16

finngirl

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Well, speaking as someone from the "colonies" (Canada), I have to say I'm totally ambivalent about the monarchy. It's a quaint and lovely idea, and I understand the royal family supports a lot of charities, etc., but I really resent shelling out millions of dollars every time they decide they want to do a tour. We will have Charles and Camilla here soon, and the bill for that is just money down the drain as far as I'm concerned. I think attitudes will change when and if Charles becomes king - I don't think he will be welcomed whole heartedly, especially throughout the Commonwealth.

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Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:30

Ollie

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There is something about the historical continuity that I like. I mean, I can trace my family back through historical epochs and I feel a connection to those people and events. When I think of QEII, I think of her father, of the terrible abdication, of Queen Victoria . . . And on and on and feel a connection there, too. Not personal, but historical.

Its like - I know the touchstones for my life and my family, but the British monarchy is sort of that in a historical sense for us all. Of course that is purely a colonial view as many in the US & Canada don't share the colonial / revolutionary history, but I am comforted in a way by it all. And that is in spite of the uglier aspects of history and the mostly symbolic nature of the Windsors.

And I like Elizabeth; she has had the good fortune to be long lived and long respected in a 'profession' that chews people up.

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Fri, 05/18/2012 - 16:43

Kristen K.

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My family is American as can be, I have a dozen Revolutionary War Patriots in my ancestry, we've been here a very long time. That being said, I LOVE the British Royal Family! I am entranced by the grander of it all. I understand what Ollie means my that touchstone, and connection that a Royal Family can provide. Unlike most Americans I really dig formality and duty, the importance of tradition. I love that there are still things that are done because that's the way that they have always been done. Were I a British citizen, I would not mind at all that part of my taxes supported the monarchy. Rather, I would revel in the "dream" that they create.

I wouldn't say that I'm a "fan" of the Presidential system. Culturally, I think it has helped to create the void of what appropriate manners are in today's culture. The sense of "duty" is a temporary one, and it's about a job, not a cultural station. It doesn't inspire traditions in the average family home. Our First Ladies don't often inspire the dream of becoming one quite like the dream of becoming a princess. Granted, for those who live in and around DC, I'm sure that there are some traditions that it has made. The annual easter egg roll on White House the lawn comes to mind. But there's no place that you can go year after year and know that you'll see the first family because it's something that they support and have for your entire life. The extended first family is not of any interest to most people. It's just transient and kind of boring. The time is not there to truly form an attachment to the family.

When I think of the British Monarchy, I think of 1000 years of history. I think about the abdication, I think about Queen Mum and what a woman of true she must have been. I think about Hats and purses with gloves and a hankie inside (strange but true). I think of doing it one way simply because it's the right way to do it. The elegant way. I have loved watching Diana's boys grow up and I love the new life that they've brought. I often feel sorry for Charles, but think that he's grown as a figure of the single Dad. I often wonder if he'll ever really get the chance to stretch his wings as King.

Granted, I'm sure that my attitude is not typical for an American, but it's also not uncommon. There are plenty of folks over here that enjoy royal watching.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 16:59

cadac

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It costs around 84p per tax payer a year for the cost of the royal family. The Canadians i beleive pay simlilar and works out as about $1.50 per year.

Charles strangely enough isn't liked as much as his sons and many people would want him to abdicate and leave it to William to continue.

For many years growing up I always saw the American system as the one to admire and would have gladly given up the royal family for that, however as I've grown up and understood the history more I do appreciate what a royal family can bring to a country In times of hardship. Just look at the royal wedding last year as proof.

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Fri, 05/18/2012 - 20:01

Kristen K.

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cadac wrote:

It costs around 84p per tax payer a year for the cost of the royal family. The Canadians i beleive pay simlilar and works out as about $1.50 per year.

Wait, what? Seriously? People complain about $1.50 a year to support the royal family?

Even we in the states get news stories about how Her Majesty is cutting corners and how "Green" Charles is. The younger generation seems to be quite modest too. I mean Duchess Katherine shops off rack and re-wears things just like normal folk. It's not like they're running around willy nilly tossing money in the air or using it to wipe their noses.

Shoot... I can't even buy a cup of coffee for $1.50. I'd send my $1.50 in from here if there was a way.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 20:17

cadac

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Kristen K. wrote:

cadac wrote:
It costs around 84p per tax payer a year for the cost of the royal family. The Canadians i beleive pay simlilar and works out as about $1.50 per year.

Wait, what? Seriously? People complain about $1.50 a year to support the royal family?

Shoot... I can't even buy a cup of coffee for $1.50. I'd send my $1.50 in from here if there was a way.

Just had a check and I was a little out, in 2010 it was actually 62p per person acording to the bbc approx one dollar per year http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10507329

Crazy isn't it?

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Fri, 05/18/2012 - 20:27

finngirl

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Kristen K. wrote:

cadac wrote:
It costs around 84p per tax payer a year for the cost of the royal family. The Canadians i beleive pay simlilar and works out as about $1.50 per year.

Wait, what? Seriously? People complain about $1.50 a year to support the royal family?

Shoot... I can't even buy a cup of coffee for $1.50. I'd send my $1.50 in from here if there was a way.

It sounds ridiculous to complain about $1.50 per day to support the royal family, I know. My issue is when they decide to do a "tour". The security fees, dinners, etc. add up to MILLIONS each time. Although Canada hasn't been hit quite as hard as the U.S. and Europe in the last few years, there are still lots of places that money could be better spent. For middle class earners, our effective tax rate is almost 50%, and I'd rather that money went to help fellow Canadians, or people really in need elsewhere in the world. Perhaps my view is also shaped by not being British, just a member of the Commonwealth. For us, the royal family really is just a ceremonial figurehead and a tie to our past.

I have to admit though that I'm as guilty as anyone else in getting caught up in the pomp and ceremony, especially the royal weddings. I admire Queen Elizabeth immensely; also the Queen Mother's bravery during WWII, etc. Both had impossible jobs in difficult times, and performed their duties with class, grace, and intelligence. That is what I meant by being ambivalent - is it possible to be indifferent and fascinated at the same time?

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Fri, 05/18/2012 - 22:03

nikamel

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My mother who is 84 is a stanch monarchist...she loves the queen and all the monarchy stands for. Her father immigrated here (Canada) as a young boy and her mother's mother came as a young girl. I on the other hand am a bit indifferent. I have respect for the monarchy as my first husband served in the military and the royal family held a high reverence to his regiment. I even shook the hand of the queens husband when he came to inspect the troops but I also have issue with tax payers money being spent each time they visit. We have a deep history as far as the monachy goes and you just can't help standing and breaking into song when you hear God Save the Queen being played!

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 22:41

RobynPrincess

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Having met Harry (yes, really I used to live in Windsor - not the Castle sadly, jus the town) I can honestly say I love them, and him in particular

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Fri, 05/18/2012 - 22:43

Kristen K.

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finngirl wrote:

It sounds ridiculous to complain about $1.50 per day to support the royal family, I know. My issue is when they decide to do a "tour". The security fees, dinners, etc. add up to MILLIONS each time. Although Canada hasn't been hit quite as hard as the U.S. and Europe in the last few years, there are still lots of places that money could be better spent. For middle class earners, our effective tax rate is almost 50%, and I'd rather that money went to help fellow Canadians, or people really in need elsewhere in the world. Perhaps my view is also shaped by not being British, just a member of the Commonwealth. For us, the royal family really is just a ceremonial figurehead and a tie to our past.

Ahhh.. but the money for a Royal tour DOES go to help Fellow Canadians! Who do you think provide those security teams and dinners? Canadians!! Security and Police details pick up overtime, news people get more assignments, florists and event planners get more business, as do caterers. Hotels fill to capacity, restaurants pick up business from security, world wide press, the royal entourage, and tourists alike. Vendors kick into gear and sell buckets full of "stuff" all emblazoned with HRH's likeness. Sports teams add extra games, which sell more tickets and make bigger food, drink & stuff sales. With tourists come tourists dollars, away from home people need food, cloths, and lodging. A Royal tour is a WONDERFUL thing for the economy!! Don't look at it as "THe Police department had to go 50K over budget in overtime" instead you should think "100 Police Officers were able to double their monthly income during their tour". The money that your fellow Canadians make will be spent right there at home as well. Think of all the extra work hours it takes to accomplish a royal tour, that's all money pumping right back into the Canadian economy and going straight into the pockets of everyone HRH even vaguely passes. All for just $1.50 a year. One extra shift for an hourly paid worker is sure to make that back at least five fold.

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 01:36

finngirl

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Kristen K. wrote:

Don't look at it as "THe Police department had to go 50K over budget in overtime" instead you should think "100 Police Officers were able to double their monthly income during their tour".

If you knew what our police officers make in salary, you would know why that doesn't make anyone here feel warm and fuzzy!

I'll give you the potential spin-off benefits for small vendors, etc. I hope that for the upcoming tour, that's what happens. Based on past experience however, I suspect that a good part of that money will go to "friends" of the government, not the local businesses that deserve and need it. That's not the royals' fault, but unfortunately it tarnishes their visits.

The polls I've seen show that Canadians are split about 50/50 about the monarchy - the ones in favour tend to be fervent monarchists, and the rest are at best indifferent. My ambivalence kind of reflects our society I guess. I feel like I should be a monarchist, since my other half is English/Scots, but personally I'm in the irrelevant camp. So many of us have British roots and ties, but that proportion gets less and less each year, so I can understand why half the country doesn't care. I also understand those that cherish British traditions and values - so much of our society is based on those. Perhaps if I ever get to travel to Britain, I will feel differently about the monarchy itself. That's definitely on my list of places to go, so I will see then if I change my mind.

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Sat, 05/19/2012 - 02:46

Jess

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Ok maybe I'm stupid but I guess I didn't realize that the British Monarchy and Canada had ties to each other. How are they connected?

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Sat, 05/19/2012 - 03:41

finngirl

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Jess wrote:

Ok maybe I'm stupid but I guess I didn't realize that the British Monarchy and Canada had ties to each other. How are they connected?

Canada was originally a British colony, the same as Australia, etc. We have a parliamentary system of government, based on the British system, and the Queen is still technically the head of our government. Nowadays, she's mainly a figurehead, but we still have a position called the "Governor General", and this is the Queen's representative for Canada. Although this person is appointed by our Prime Minister every 5 years, he (at the moment it's a he) has the power to dissolve parliament, etc., in the event of a non-confidence vote that goes against the sitting government.

New immigrants pledge allegiance to the Queen also I believe when they take their citizenship oath.

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Sat, 05/19/2012 - 05:25

evilduckqueen

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Being Australian, we are still part of the Commonwealth. Just like Canada. I grew up watching them, and it helps that my Grandparents on both sides, are English, and Scottish. My English Grandmother (who lives here in Australia), has memorabilia from when Charles and Diana married, and when Elizabeth II became Queen. I quite like them, and would be sad to see them go, if Australia ever becomes a Republic.

I used to have a huge crush on William. I remember watching him signing something to get into Eton, and noticing that he left handed like I am. It was all very exciting at the time (for me, anyway!)

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Sat, 05/19/2012 - 13:37

Kristen K.

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Okay, so this thread sent a googling...

The Queen is Head of State of 15 Commonwealth realms in addition to the UK which include: Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Jamaica, Antigua and Barbuda, Belize, Papua New Guinea, St Christopher and Nevis, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Tuvalu, Barbados, Grenada, Solomon Islands, St Lucia and The Bahamas.

Sat, 05/19/2012 - 14:00

JoAnn C

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Kristen K. wrote:

Okay, so this thread sent a googling...

Other British territories include the British Virgin Islands and Falkland Islands.

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Sat, 05/19/2012 - 19:42

Lizzy_B

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I'm a fan girl of the Royal Family and the UK in general. Always have been, always will be. There is a romance and a sweeping history to having your roots go back far, far, far into the past. I was over the moon a few years back to find out my family hailed from England, rather than Germany as we had always thought. And yet, I understand the romance of the Americas, too - throwing off convention and making a Brave New World.

While I understand that money can be spent in better ways (believe me, I think the same can be said of official state visits and trips taken by dignitaries in the US as well), I like the tie to tradition and customs and, well, manners. I recently re-read Rilla of Ingleside (the final book in L.M. Montgomery's Anne of Green Gables Series, for those unfamiliar) and I contrasted the behavior of those left behind during WWI with what I see from my contemporaries. Sometimes, I think we could return to a sense of duty and propriety. But I am hopelessly old fashioned, and I understand if my opinion is unpopular.

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Sat, 05/19/2012 - 21:19

finngirl

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[ I contrasted the behavior of those left behind during WWI with what I see from my contemporaries. Sometimes, I think we could return to a sense of duty and propriety. But I am hopelessly old fashioned, and I understand if my opinion is unpopular.

Oh no, that opinion is not unpopular with me anyway. I am hopelessly old fashioned too, and old enough to remember when we had our "at home" behaviour, and public behaviour. There seem to be no boundaries now, and people feel free to be rude and intrusive, no matter where they are. There is no recognition of "time and place" - everyone seems solely concerned with themselves. That is one of the reasons I said I do admire the Queen - she has always acted with grace and intelligence, no matter how difficult the situation. I wish more of our public leaders would do the same - I think the world could use a little more selfless duty.

My grandma (who was from Dover, England) always told us that good manners were a gift you gave to the people around you. I try to be as gracious and polite as she taught us, but boy, sometimes, it's a challenge!

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Sun, 06/03/2012 - 19:09

JustCar

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Charles and Camillia were just here a couple of weeks ago and I'm done with them. Diana was my favourite, but Will and Kate and Harry are def. the up and comers. I can't wait for Wils to become king. I hope Charles passes.

What ever happened to Andrew and Edward

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Sun, 06/03/2012 - 23:03

honeymoonin

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My mother was a huge admirer of Diana. William and I are just about the same age. When I was little my mom told me I was going to marry him and become the next Queen.

However, because of that I always admired the Royal Family. William and Kate got engaged around the same time as I did. I woke my now husband up to watch the Wedding with me and I cried the whole time.

I also remember when Diana came to Chicago many years ago. My mom, myself and my moms friend all went to The Field Museum and the Drake Hotel ,where she stayed, so we could catch a glimpse of her.

My mom and I are not fans of Charles and Camilla.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 00:17

RobynPrincess

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I love everything that is America, I would probably sell my soul to the devil to live in Florida, or at least spend half of my life there. That being said, I have never ever felt more proud to be British today, I have spent the whole day on the edge of tears (god only knows how I will get through the next 2 days!). We watched the water pagent on TV even though we live very close to London, I didnt want to cope with the crowds. Just thought the whole day was so moving. The day started off with the Royals getting out of the car and boarding the first boat, while walking to it Kate was stopping to talk to everyone and a tiny boy in his dad's arms gave her some flowers and she so graciously took them from him and stood to talk to him and his dad, she is a true Lady. On the main boat there were 2 'thrones' for the Quen to sit down and she didnt sit once (that i saw, i was cooking while watching), she was standing to wave to the thousands of people who came to see her. The final boat that sailed by was with the orchestra and choir who were SOAKED to the skin and the sang their hearts out to 'God save the queen' and she cheered so much when they finished. It was very humbling.

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Mon, 06/04/2012 - 00:59

Ollie

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I am not British, but this is one of those moments when you know that something important is happening, when you know that the world and history are watching and I feel lucky to know that and to be able to celebrate the life of this truly remarkable woman. QEII represents - to me - the best sort of life lived.
She reminds me of my mother in many ways, and I so admire her.
Sorry that the weather was so poor, but it seemed that everyone was having a great time. 'Twas glorious to watch!

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Mon, 06/04/2012 - 12:25

Kristen K.

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JustCar wrote:

I hope Charles passes.

You mean to say that you hope he abdicates? 'Cause I read that, as you hope he dies. LOL!

JustCar wrote:

What ever happened to Andrew and Edward

Edward is a film producer who married a publicist. I don't think they have any children.

I always had a crush on Andrew when I was young. Not sure what he is doing these days, is he still a military officer? I see a lot of his daughters on TV so I'm sure he's nearby. I can't quite pick him out of a crowd the way I used to anymore.

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 17:19

crazycatperson

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I'm glad we don't have a royal family here in the U.S. I don't like the idea of having to bow down to anybody just because of an accident of birth.

However, I have no problem with the U.K. having a royal family (as long as that's what most Britons want). Since we don't get to have that kind of pomp and spectacle here in the U.S. (inaugurations don't even come close), I like watching yours. Also, most of my ancestors were from the U.K. (English, Scottish, and Irish), so I have a personal link to your country. My grandmother from Bermuda was quite proud of being English.

So basically, I get to enjoy my ancestral ties to your country while enjoying our republican form of government. Win/win.

Tue, 06/05/2012 - 14:45

Kristen K.

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My children and I are sitting on the couch, watching Her Majesty on the balcony. The band started singing and all of her subject started singing 'God Save the Queen' and I'm balling like a baby. SO beautiful, so wonderful... I'm obviously living in the wrong country.

Tue, 06/05/2012 - 14:55

Poppet

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Lizzy_B wrote:

I'm a fan girl of the Royal Family and the UK in general. Always have been, always will be. There is a romance and a sweeping history to having your roots go back far, far, far into the past. I was over the moon a few years back to find out my family hailed from England, rather than Germany as we had always thought. And yet, I understand the romance of the Americas, too - throwing off convention and making a Brave New World.

LOVE LOVE LOVE the "Anne of Green Gables" series!!!!

Tue, 06/05/2012 - 14:56

JustCar

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Kristen K. wrote:

JustCar wrote:
I hope Charles passes.

You mean to say that you hope he abdicates? 'Cause I read that, as you hope he dies. LOL!

JustCar wrote:

What ever happened to Andrew and Edward

Edward is a film producer who married a publicist. I don't think they have any children.

Sorry dear heavens

Passes to William abdicates was definitely the word I was looking for.

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Tue, 06/05/2012 - 14:57

JustCar

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If you love Anne of Green gables then you better come visit PEI

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Tue, 06/05/2012 - 15:36

campbell87

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I've always had a huge interest in the monarchy and all the history they come with. The grandeur, everything, it's always caught my attention and imagination Being a brit myself I do think it's something we need and should be proud of. Unfortunately unless there's an excuse for a party or an extra day off work, most people don't bother much with the monarchy and that saddens me. They do and can set a brilliant example to future generations.

Personally I can't see Charles taking the crown, I think QEII will skip him and pass the crown to William - which she can do without much question, it's her crown.

I've been watching the celebrations all weekend and loving all the support and celebrating for her! Such a shame Philip couldn't be with her today when it counted most!

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Tue, 06/05/2012 - 16:51

Kristen K.

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campbell87 wrote:

Personally I can't see Charles taking the crown, I think QEII will skip him and pass the crown to William - which she can do without much question, it's her crown.

I'm not British, so I could be wrong, but I don't think that's how hereditary monarchies work. There are such things as elective monarchies, but this isn't one. If you are British, please feel free to correct me!

There are pretty strict rules as to who the crown goes to next and when the line of succession is. For instance, Charles could never say "I like Harry better, he'll be King". William was born first, William will be King, Harry is just "the spare". As cute and charming as he may be. The basis for a hereditary monarchy is divine right, by direct bloodline, in a legal order based upon birth and (at the moment but in legislation to be removed) gender. Wars/Rebellions have broken out over that.

At the moment one of two things would have to happen in order for Charles to be skipped. Charles would either have to decide to become a Catholic (a restriction that is currently in legislation to be removed) or he would have to chose to abdicate. He's prepared to become King for his entire life. Over the past 15 years he's quite come into his own, being a single parent can make that forced growth. I know that he's not as popular as William, but I do think that he has finally become a man that he is comfortable with. I was not a Charles fan while Diana was alive, but in the years since her passing he's gained my respect.

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